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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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5/15/2012 12:01:08 PM what vehicle to buy?
ok, i like my suburban, but it has 165,000 miles and wife wants something else. its paid for and I may keep it, but i am likely gonna need a new suv or similar vehicle. I have 4 kids and would like a versatile and useful vehicle. something grand and custom is really not my thing, though I would apply modifications within reason, like wench, tires, lift kit, lights etc. what would you get?
i have to tell you i am leaning toward a land rover?
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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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5/15/2012 1:34:03 PM
durangos are ceaper, running about 30k, and landroversstar a 80k. suburban new is 58k, and hilanders are similar. most have alot of bells and whistles that I dontneed. I am interested in a towing package, good quality, room, 4 wheel drive and storage space.maybe a dual fuel potential?
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Deviated Rationality
Join Date: 8/16/2010
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5/17/2012 7:30:15 AM
Avoid Land Rovers, unless they are the older ones that are much less complex and advanced. The more advanced (technology/electronics based) the higher the chances of break down, and in a SHTF situation you're not likely to find a mechanic to fix something like a Landrover or parts for it.
I've been looking into this for a while and found a few good vehicles. What you need to do is build a list of your perceived requirements, specific to your situation. I'm in a different situation with you as I don't have a wife or kids, so my results would be different from your own.
Key factors to consider:
- Range
- Milage
- Passenger count
- Storage needs
- Towing capacity
- Possible terrain & obstacle considerations
- Ease of troubleshooting & maintenance
- Ease of parts allocation or adaptation
For me, I always thought the Jeep Cherokee (not the Grand Cherokee) was the best thing due to its small size, power, and ease of travel. My main thing was that large off road vehicles have trouble navigating the wilderness off main trails, the Jeep Cherokee was much more capable of doing this. However, they are plagued by their own problems (most notably the transfer case).
That said, I started looking into other possibilities. To my surprise, at the time the Chevy Tracker turned out to be one of the best options. It is a bit small, but parts are easy to come by, it is extremely capable with a few cheap mods. But, it is way to small for long term and has very little torque for towing unless you do an engine swap.
The Samurai (essentially the same thing as the Tracker) was another option, albeit the older models (although the ones the Tracker is based off of work as well). Quite simply, they go pretty much anywhere they fit, and they don't die easily. On top of that, the older ones are extremely easy to modify with any number of upgrades, including diesel engines, snorkels, and propane roll over fuel kits.
Again, this is too small and not practical. Although I would love one (probably will get one eventually), my needs are a more practical vehicle.
Here is my list:
- Range: 600 miles
- Milage: 25+
- Passenger count: 2-3
- Storage needs: minimal, 3 BOBs and a few BIKs
- Towing capacity: Minimal, mounted cargo carrier or small trailer
- Possible terrain & obstacle considerations: swamp, mud, flat land forest. Deciduous Forest, Marsh, moderate mountain, Flat lands.
- Ease of troubleshooting & maintenance: Fairly easy, more common.
- Ease of parts allocation or adaptation: Cheaper = better. Longer life is paramount.
Special requirements:
- Needs to be large enough for 2-3 people (comfort not an issue) and gear/sustenance
- Small enough to fit down most trails, tight alleys or passages
- Wide enough wheel base for stability (to avoid roll overs), narrow enough to ride the tops of center trails (larger trucks will leave deep gullys that lower riding vehicles can bottom out on).
- AWD full time, if not 4x4 or FWD.
- Manual
- Common vehicle, common color. My intent it to not stick out or attract attention; Jeeps & Landrovers will be highly targeted.
To my surprise, I found 3 or 4 possibilities (depending on how willing I am to work for it)
1. Honda CRV (pre-2004) Full time AWD Manual
These cars use Civic engines (which means its extremely easy to work on and find parts for) and have full time AWD, not to mention have great gas milage. This means minimal work to get them up to spec in a bind. Usually you can leave them bone stock and they can go damn near anywhere, even with stock tires. All I would do is a 2-3 inch lift, have 2 sets of wheels (one for every day use, one for off road/SHTF/snow), install an internally run (in the cabin) snorkel. This would hide the fact that it is a BOV. It would run through the cabin and exit the top behind a luggage rack (think of the shield on the front blocking.)
From there I would work to make it look like it's a POS, but not to the point where I would be embarrassed by being seen in public with it.
2. Toyota RAV4
Essentially all the same properties of the CRV, but a bit more aesthetically pleasing and less chance of it being stolen (CRVs are stolen quite a bit in some areas).
For a better explanation and videos, check out Ferfal's article on exactly this topic:
[URL]http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2011/11/choosing-bug-out-vehicle.html[/URL]
3. Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute
Complete sleeper for a BOV, mainly because of the bad reputation for breaking down and being a pain in the ass to work on. I would get the FWD or 4x4 version, swap out the engines and suspensions. For their small size, they can hold a surprising amount of gear, 3 people can pack a ton of gear and still be fairly comfortable for a long period of time.
4. Older model Jeep Cherokee Sports
Its a jeep, but the older models are much more reliable (electronics are minimal) and easier to fix, not to mention the quality is much higher. Still, this would be a good vehicle to use because of the flexibility and capability in such a small package.
5. Audi Quattros - A3 (hatchback), A4.
These have what are considered to be the best AWD systems on the market, and have been since their release to the public, which was in 1980.
6. Subaru Outback Impreza, all models.
One of the best little rally cars out there, also one of the most reliable. Capable of high speeds, excellent handling, and great off road. Issues with them deal more with how difficult the terrain is, you won't be able to go mudding in these; you will be restricted to roads or well traveled trails that dont have deep sugar sand.
7. Suzuki Samurai/Chevy Tracker/Geo Tracker/Sidekick
Small, capable, and easy to fix/modify. For good examples, check out this site: [URL]http://www.puresuzuki.com/suzukimain.htm[/URL]
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Deviated Rationality
Join Date: 8/16/2010
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5/17/2012 7:35:06 AM
In Afghanistan, Africa, and Iraq one of the most common vehicles you will come across is the Toyota Hylux, which in North America is the 4Runner or Tacoma. These things simply don't die. Period.
A few mods I would suggest would be the snorkel (ran through the cabin if possible) and also a propane roll-over fuel kit. if you roll over or wind up on an elevated incline you could stall out and get stuck because you can't deliever fuel to your engine. Propane rollover kits fix that, and on top of that they are cheap and get pretty decent milage/power. They have a problem with exploding when overheated or shot a few times, although there are ways to protect against it.
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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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5/18/2012 2:22:32 PM
Thanks D.R. I would have to say you have looked a lot into this and appreciate your input.
Your right I need a bigger vehicle and just love the old land rovers. I also like the old Cherokees, but alas they are too small for me. I have a 4 door wrangler and I love it, but again too small for all six. I considered a big diesel truck with a bench seat up front. Wife nixed that. There are lots of big vehicles, a Toyota land cruiser comes to mind but not looked at them yet. Suburbams are everywhere so I guess that's a plus. Keep the ideas coming and I just love those little trackers!
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Dan
Join Date: 3/14/2008
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5/21/2012 7:44:15 AM
I have a Nissan Pathfinder...good enough, but I put a LOT of miles on it. I have had to replace two catalytic converters and the transmission is starting to go on it. But...I do a lot of stop and go driving in the city and on congested highways.
I have taken it on some sketchy backroads in the pine barrens and it never failed me....got scared one time when I hit a MUCH deeper "puddle" than I expected. I came out ok.
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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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5/21/2012 1:05:39 PM
I had one as well and it is right upthere with the jeep formed. I will have to see if the larger ones will work for us, but i loved mine in college.
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Urban Medic
Join Date: 3/21/2008
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6/18/2012 3:22:04 AM
I have a 2003 Nissan Xterra which has also served me very well in the Pines, for all the same reasons as Dan mentioned. I also just replaced the catalytic converters and had a fuel system issue (the thing is 10 yrs old, not entirely unexpected but still $$$), and thus far, outside of wear & tear, it's pretty reliable.
Never considered the RAV4, but I did look at the Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute (essentially the same vehicle, just different badging). I also looked at a Jeep Wrangler, but I've heard bad things about reliability. I'm okay on the Durangos, considering their rep in hard use (most of our fire dept & EMS chiefs use them), but the gas mileage was a concern.
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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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6/19/2012 8:52:29 PM
Well the wife settled on a Toyota sequoia. It's a nice vehicle with all the bells and whistles. With 6 people it doesn't have enough storage room. I will have to get some heavier luggage racks, a trailer hitch rack. I would rather have had a custom ford adventure van. The sequoia is on a Toyota tundra frame and drives well. Nice gps and flex fuel. Not driven enough to determine true mpg. Can't say it's what I really wanted but I'm alright with it.
The adventure van had water storage, back up generator, dual fuel, re-enforced chassis, 4x4 and lift kit, holds more than 8, durable tires, extra gas tanks, diesel and all sorts of great stuff.
But I will make ithe Toyota work. What would you add to the Suv for a vehicle kit
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PharmPhilly
Join Date: 1/28/2010
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8/13/2012 6:32:42 AM
Great posts and research Dev Rationality...
Well my 2002 Jeep Liberty crapped out fri night. My friend thinks 1 or 2 heads are cracked and it would take dropping an engine in...
Since it has almost 130k I am just figuring on picking something else up...
I am debating getting another ~4 yr old Jeep Liberty or spending about 2x that and checking out the Toyota 4runners...
I'm just not sure if its worth spending the addl. money...
I hear good things about the CRVs also, I just don't have much experience with them. I figure they are more in the 4runner price range...
I am rocking a rental Kia Rio now, hahaha...
Ahhh, decisions decisions....
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Deviated Rationality
Join Date: 8/16/2010
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8/13/2012 8:43:00 AM
Id stay away from anything Jeep. Quality simply isn't there anymore, and they still have yet to do anything about the gas consumption issues that plague all of their models.
CRV is on of my top picks. But again, you really need to think about what applies to you. Do you *need* ground clearance? More than likely that answer is no, at least not until the time comes. When you need to boogey, that clearance might come in handy.
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PharmPhilly
Join Date: 1/28/2010
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8/13/2012 12:38:30 PM
DR you are exactly right!... Other people have advised me the same as far as Jeeps declining quality and the better options (CRV & 4runner or RAV4)...
I do like the increased clearnece. I do enough outdoors stuff that its worth it to me. It also helps in the snow and would if I had to boogie too, haha..
I am also debating buying something ~4 years old, leasing, or buying new and having the warranty..
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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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8/14/2012 3:35:01 PM
dont buy new. I just hate the depreciation. I bought new again, and I always say I will never do it again. Now I do like y 4 door wrangle so far. its about 4 years old and not too many issues yet and all little. will keep my fingers crossed.
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Bumppo
Join Date: 3/14/2008
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8/15/2012 4:31:08 PM jeep
I have owned or been around jeeps most if my life. I do not consider anything new a jeep if it is not the Wrangler. I currently have a jk rubicon 2008. From the factory it will go anywhere. Add a winch and ot will go further(plus some jerry cans). It will also go 150000 + miles. I do not have experience with a Tundra excpept their payload does not compare to 3/4 ton diesel but its size does. I put a cable on a rav 4 in a river at 20 feet...
The tow truck ripped off the first frame mounted tow hook.
In my mind all car/ truck companies make at least ine decent vehical but NONE make a factory ready off road vehical like a jeep wrangler rubicon.
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PharmPhilly
Join Date: 1/28/2010
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8/16/2012 11:33:36 AM
Good calls guys...
I am thinking about doing the cert. preowned route. They were pushing me hard to lease though!
I loved my Jeep. Everyone says the newer ones lack the quality they once had. Since they got bought by Fiat maybe? Those Rubicons look awesome. I wasn't familiar with their rep. though. Good to hear they're soild...
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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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8/21/2012 3:53:30 PM
i have a 4 door wrangler. even with stock tires I can go most anywhere. i am addin a lift kit and maybe just throw a long come along in the back and feel pretty good about it. no probs so far. I gotta say I think the four door thing is worthwhile, it gives alot of space.
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Trackerdoc
Join Date: 3/15/2008
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4/21/2013 11:50:59 AM
tot really sure how old the jeep wrangler is now, but have about 61,000 on it and had to get some stuff done to the breaks and rotors this last week, but it is driving like a top still. my wife has a new book about zombies and they are the slow moving/shambling kind and i think i want a huge truck with giant tires to haul people and crush zombies with giant tires.
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